A lesson in how not to negotiate

"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
08/05/2015 at 09:51 • Filed to: Craigslist

I mentioned last week that I !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for $7,850. I’ve had some inquiries, some emailed low-ball offers, lots of questions, and the ubiquotious is X still available which is followed by absolutely nothing. So far I haven’t been asked to trade for a Sportster, which is something heretofore I have always been offered whenever I’ve sold a car on Craigslist.

The most serious interest came from Ivan. A guy in his mid 20’s or so who specifically has been looking for a Buick Apollo. We met on Thursday, he asked me 1001 questions, I took him for a ride in it, and he asked me if we could schedule an inspection for it at his expense. I agreed, and we set up an appointment at a shop not too far from home on Monday afternoon. While we waited, we discussed the car and how long he has been looking for one. He also mentioned that he’s interested in a white ‘69 Nova that is on Craigslist, but it’s 3 hours away in Indiana. The inspection came out pretty well. The car has flaws, as any 41 year old car is apt to have, but it is a good solid car.

So, it was time to talk turkey. I felt pretty good. I really liked Ivan, he really wanted the car, and the inspection came out pretty well. Then he hit me where it hurt, with a mega low-ball offer of $4,500. That’s over 40% less then my asking price. Now I’m wondering why the hell I’m even here.

I flat out reject it, he pumps me for a counter-offer. I already know we aren’t making a deal today, we’re just too far apart. He insists on a counter offer, I halfheartedly offer to come down $500. Then he tells me that he’s read all my posts about the Buick here on Oppo (no screen-name, just a lurker he says), that he knows all about it, and he offers to pay what I paid for it 8 years ago, $5,800. I flat out reject it again, he comes up to $6,000. Final offer, cash. Again I reject it.

Now here is the thing I don’t understand. He knows all about my car and my situation. He knows I don’t need to sell it. Why start with a low-ball? What could possibly make him think I would take that?

He texted me that night to say his offer of $6,000 was still good for a few days, but he was going to look at that Nova. My response was, “$7k is my bottom. You won’t find an X-body in better shape for less. But if you do, you should buy it.”

When we were negotiating, I never told him $7,000 was where I’d sell, because he started so damn low, that I was done the instant he threw out that number. Now if he had started at a reasonable offer, like the $6,000 he went up to, we could have had a productive conversation. While I’m not about to drop to $6k, I MIGHT have gone a bit lower than that $7k I really want. Why? Well, I really did like the guy. Actually I still like the guy, and I hope he finds a nice X-body.

Although that Nova? I think he’s going to be mighty disappointed when he sees it in person. Chicago Craigslist only has one white ‘69 Novo right now, and it is in Indiana. I has no details, and 1 photo (that has a rust hole!), it simply directs you to Ft. Wayne Craigslist for details. That’s where I found this ad, for an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that has a tidy interior, a very nicely detailed engine compartment ... and lots of rust.

What did I get out of the whole deal? Well, thinking I was about to sell it made me actually drive the damn thing. I took a few short cruises, and then Saturday a buddy and I took a little trip to see a dirt track race. Also, I really liked the shop that inspected the Buick. It was a good thorough and fair inspection, and he wouldn’t even take any money for doing it. That’s going to pay off for him, as I will be back.

DISCUSSION (100)

CalzoneGolem > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 09:56

4.5k? What an insult.

crowmolly > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:04

From what I can tell, that Nova needs work on both quarters, both doors/rockers(?) and the passenger fender. The paint looks OK but if it were my car I’d want to take it down for a respray.

Stand firm on your asking price. Your Apollo is nice. The clean body is worth the money. If I were in the market and in your area I would have bought it, no joke. Body work is too GD expensive these days.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:05

Should have asked for more off the bat. First offer from CL is always going to be a mega low-ball.

TractorPillow > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:06

Yeah if he knew you didn’t need to sell it he should have started higher. On the other hand, I have bought a couple cars with some pretty low ball offers and been super shocked by the seller saying “okay” and not even haggling one bit. Because of those experiences I've learned that the worst someone can say is no.

Berang > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:09

According to the most recent edition of the collector car price guide, your asking price is really the ceiling for this model. I don’t want to be a party pooper, but unfortunately these just don’t get the same prices as Novas.

That said, craigslist is craigslist, people are going to lowball and 4.5K is a lowball offer. Don’t be offended though, because anybody with half a brain is going to offer less than they’re really willing to spend.

Azrek > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:09

I personally love reading anything that involves Craigslist and offers...my black heart enjoys laughing at the people and their offers.

Party-vi > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:10

Ivan sounds like a dickfer.

Ivan I hope you’re reading this

Grindintosecond > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:12

I just sold a rolling kitchen cart on Craig’s. The texts are as follows....

her: “Is there any way you can go a bit lower on the price? Seeing how i’m driving up from XXXXX and all.”

me: “Are you asking for gas money?”

PS9 > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:18

You know what would be fucked up? If he wasn’t actually a lurker, and only said that to make sure he could lowball you without breaking any goodwill he might have earned with you here as an opponaut.

vwbeamer > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:26

I feel your pain having sold three cars this year, but if you are sure you got you car priced fair, then hold out for that price.

Each time I listed a car, there was always an Ivan to deal with, and multiple “low ballers’.

My tip is NEVER negotiate a price via email or phone with someone who has not seen the car. I made that mistake on the first car I sold, a 67 chevy truck. I agreed to a lower price before the buyer saw the truck. of course he found a lot stuff wrong with it when he got there, it was a 48 year old truck. he then used that stuff to beat me down and get another discount on the car.

So refuse any offer unless the buyers has inspected the car.

My second tip is when Ivan low balls you, go ahead and cut them loose right away. If they can’t offer you 80% of your asking price, don’t return their calls, text, etc. They are time wasters. I have tried to bring the low ballers back up to a reasonable price, and it’s a waste of time. They really don’t want to buy your car at a fair price, they are looking for a steal, don’t let them waste your time.

Third tip, be careful about people leaving a deposit. Everytime I’ve taken a deposit, I wish I had not. A deposit will almost always cost you a quicker sell. Last deposit I took, it cost me three or quicker sells on the car, and the buyer ended up backing out. He had given the deposit thru paypal with a CC, so he ended up getting the deposit back also. Net result for me was two wasted weeks. If you take a deposit, it should be CASH, and the buyer needs to sign an agreement that the deposit is NON refundable. It always some body who is about to get money from income tax, insurance settlement, inhertence, etc. Again, time wasters.

Key is do your research, know what your car is worth and don’t let the low ballers and tire kickers waste too much of your time. If you car is priced fair, you will get your price.

Birddog > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:29

I’d love to be there when he offers $4500 for that Nova.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:42

Wow. Sounds like this guy needs to remember that classic cars are for fun and if you aren’t willing to pony up the cash for a solid one, you’re welcome to join the long ride of getting it done and done right.

In no way is my car worth as it sits the 10k it should be. But someone asked me to buy it last year and I told him I wouldn’t take less than 8k for the car. I’ve told everyone I only paid 2500 for it, I’ve done some upgrades and it needs a ton of work. But to me it’s worth more than where it currently sits because I plan on owning it and working on it with my son when he’s old enough. So you have to buy off my project and emotional investment. Which no one is going to do, but hey, I don’t want to sell it haha.

TheRealBicycleBuck > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 10:59

The problem is all these dang car/antique/pawn shop shows that feature people dickering over prices and agreeing on a number that is great for the shop owner but sucks for the seller. Everyone should remember that there is a trade-in value, retail value, and that number in-between the little blue books so lovingly call a private party value.

Craigslist is full of trolls who think like a dealer - buy ridiculously low, sell at top market value.

Your boy, BJR > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 11:13

Ivan if you're reading this take my advice: NO. NO BUICKS. Why settle? You want a sorta X-based thing? Seville. Get a first gen Seville. Do it. Buy a Seville. Ivan you should buy a Seville. Seville is the car you should buy. Buy a Seville.

CalzoneGolem > Party-vi
08/05/2015 at 11:29

What’s a dickfer?

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 11:33

Ivan’s a bit of a dick.

That shop is awesome though. Doing that would earn my business.

Party-vi > CalzoneGolem
08/05/2015 at 11:37

Fer peeing, silly.

shop-teacher > Your boy, BJR
08/05/2015 at 11:37

I hate to say this to you of all people, but as much as I love most malaise era Cadillacs, I find X-body Sevilles to be truly hideous.

shop-teacher > PS9
08/05/2015 at 11:38

That would be fucked up.

Ivan?

shop-teacher > Berang
08/05/2015 at 11:40

Oh, I am well aware that my price is at the ceiling for an Apollo, but Novas go for a good bit more in this condition than what I’m asking. If I don’t get a good price, I’ll keep it. Ivan knew that, but he didn’t make the connection that you shouldn’t low-ball somebody who does not need to sell.

shop-teacher > crowmolly
08/05/2015 at 11:42

Yeah, and judging from the amount of rust that paint job isn’t hiding, I’m sure there is a lot of bondo hidden underneath elsewhere.

shop-teacher > TractorPillow
08/05/2015 at 11:42

True, but if it’s something that you really want, starting too low will kill the deal.

shop-teacher > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
08/05/2015 at 11:44

My asking price is very strong for an Apollo. If I was asking for $10k, nobody would bother contacting me at all. At that point I’m just writing an ad to say I listed it, but since my wife gives precisely zero shits if I sell it or not, there is no point to that.

shop-teacher > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
08/05/2015 at 11:45

Ogden Motorcar in Lisile, IL for any Chicago-area Opponaughts, I was very impressed.

PS9 > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 11:46

Lowballing a fellow oppo in secret is bad enough, but traveling all the way from florida to do it? That’s even more fucked!

Man, Stone Cold Steve Austin was right. Don’t trust anybody!!!

shop-teacher > CalzoneGolem
08/05/2015 at 11:46

I was indeed insulted.

shop-teacher > Birddog
08/05/2015 at 11:46

With all the rust on that Nova, I wouldn’t touch it with a 10’ pole.

shop-teacher > vwbeamer
08/05/2015 at 11:47

All good tips, thank you.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 11:48

I’m out in Denver. There’s a shop like that near me. Serp belt broke on our ‘01 mdx.

They did it, removed the bolts that broke in the engine block (alternator is the tensioner, the alternator bolts broke in the block), the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump for 1100. Dealer or other local places wanted 1500-2500 for the timing belt service.

shop-teacher > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/05/2015 at 11:48

Yeah, I understand why Pawnshops will and need to pay a lower price ... but I am not Pawning this car Ivan.

shop-teacher > Party-vi
08/05/2015 at 11:49

I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t read this. He even knew about the graphite I put in the trunk lock to get it working a couple weeks ago.

shop-teacher > PS9
08/05/2015 at 11:51

That would actually be kind of impressive in a weird way.

Birddog > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 11:52

No joke! I’d hate to see the underside.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 11:55

Wow Ivan... Do better.

TheRealBicycleBuck > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 11:55

Wait... I hope you aren’t confusing me with Ivan! I live waaay down south near the swamps.

Ivan needs to think more like a private seller and less like a dealer.

shop-teacher > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/05/2015 at 11:59

Oh no, I didn’t take it that way at all. I was agreeing with you :)

vwbeamer > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 12:01

I agree, if your asking price is too high, then your inviting trolls and low ballers, while serious buyers will not contact you.

The low ballers are not going to buy the car at a fair price. period. No matter how high the intial asking price is.

shop-teacher > vwbeamer
08/05/2015 at 12:03

Yeah, it’s a tough thing to decide what to list. My real price is a bit under 10% less than what it’s listed at. I think that’s a reasonable amount to come down.

vwbeamer > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 12:14

Just hold out. There someone out there that would rather have the Buick because it’s different, or there dad, Uncle, brother had one when they was kid or something.

Ivan sounds like he didn’t really want a Buick, but he was willing to settle for a Buick if he got one cheap. He is not a bad guy, he just really wants a Nova.

You need to wait for someone who wants a Buick. The fewer people wanting one, but the are even fewer Buicks. So when they find one they will pay a far price for it.

Ran into the same thing when I sold my Tdi wagon. Lot of people who where good people, low balled me because they really didn’t want a wagon( I know, it’s hard to believe but some people don’t like wagons). There are not bad people. Then finally, I got a buyer who wanted a wagon. Boom, he jumped on it because there are fewer wagons for sell.

Same will happen for you.

CalzoneGolem > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 12:22

Still waiting for him to show up here.

BobintheMtns > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 12:26

I was flirting with selling my ‘77 BMW motorcycle last year, it’s a classic “S” model— (The S models had hotter cams, cafe seat, bikini faring.. and it was the most expensive moto in the World in 1977...) But mine’s a barn find that’s now in great shape with low miles... I was asking $4500.... a bit high, but once again, I don’t need to sell it.... One guy emailed me saying that Kelley Blue Book valued it at around $1400 and that I should sell it to him for that.... I replied that if he only valued an R100S at $1400 he probably was never gonna have one. He replied back with a, “but that’s what KBB says it’s worth!” I replied back with a, “well, then go buy one from them...”

shop-teacher > BobintheMtns
08/05/2015 at 13:18

Ha! Ivan did mention Blue Book value. My response was that there aren’t enough of these in the world for Blue Book to have any statistical meaning. Haggarty’s classic car value thing doesn’t even list it, because their just aren’t enough of them.

So yeah, your response was better. I’ll have to remember that one :)

Your boy, BJR > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 13:32

I personally don't like them but they were THE caddy to have in the late 70s, and a real big step for them. Of course caddy learned the wrong lesson from them and as a result, the cimmaron happened, but still.

Longroof Ben > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 13:34

So, I’ll be a heartless SOB here. Let’s get the facts straight: you offer a car for sale. He offers a sum of money to purchase the car. You refuse the initial offer and can’t come to an agreement. The deal falls through. Simple enough. Do you think the guys at Cigna and Aetna go around posting what ungreatful douchebags each other is when they can’t come to a mutually agreeable price? It’s just a potential sale of property that didn’t go through. Not worth getting so torqued up about.

Oh, but I’ve been looking for a Buick X-body. Would you consider an 883 Sporty in trade? You pay shipping both ways. ;)

shop-teacher > Longroof Ben
08/05/2015 at 14:17

Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is a place we we talk about cars. Especially our cars, and the things that happen with them.

As long as that Sporty has about $10k in cash strapped to the tank, send it on over buddy :)

Berang > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 17:08

If you’re not willing to sell, then don’t list. If you do want to sell, then be willing to bear people making stupid offers. Nothing is more annoying than somebody pretending to sell something, but not actually wanting to sell it - not even moronically low offers.

shop-teacher > Berang
08/05/2015 at 17:53

Sorry I forced you to read this.

Berang > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 18:41

Well you did make a listing with obo on the end of the price. I’m not sure what you were expecting with craigslist.

fryguy > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 22:18

Having had the most recent ride in the B - Ivan doesn’t know what he is missing. The rumble of the V-8, the wind blowing around you at 55 mph and that little chirp from the tires when going up through the gears. Yes, it is a 74 model but it brought back memories of cruising in friend Cecil’s late 50s/early 60s Dodge.

shop-teacher > fryguy
08/05/2015 at 22:21

That was a fun trip! Glad you could come :)

shop-teacher > Berang
08/05/2015 at 22:30

I’ve sold plenty of cars and lots of other things on Craiglist, so I know what I’m getting. I expect tire kickers, emailed low-ball offers, ridiculous trade propositions, etc. I don’t expect to get my asking price, and I am fully willing and fine to take better than 10% off of it. I don’t expect a guy who claims to have been looking for my car for two years, who just found the best example he’s ever seen, who spent hours with me asking tons and tons of questions, who goes to the trouble of paying for a proper inspection (he didn’t get charged, but he was fully expecting to pay for that inspection), to then offer me less than 60% of my asking price.

The point of my story was not, “Hey look what this jerk did to me.” As I said, I liked Ivan. He was a very nice and pleasant guy. The point of my story is that if you really want to buy something, don’t start off at a price so low that the seller is insulted and shuts down. Ivan could have gotten the Buick from me at a price less than I really wanted to sell it, because I liked him and wanted a guy like him to end up with the car. Ivan made a tactical error in his negotiating, which is why my article is titled, “A lesson in how not to negotiate”.

shop-teacher > vwbeamer
08/05/2015 at 22:36

Didn’t want a wagon???? Does not compute!

I think the biggest reason I was so shocked by Ivan’s offer, is that he was insistent that he specifically wanted a Buick Apollo, and that a more common Nova would be settling for him. He told me he’s been searching Craigslist every two days for the past two years, waiting for a decent one to become available.

I will hold out though. I’ll either get my price, or I’ll keep the car :)

Ivan Apollo > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 22:47

Ivan’s reply: http://ivanapollo.kinja.com/re-a-lesson-in…

Berang > shop-teacher
08/05/2015 at 23:22

Yeah but 60% off of your asking price is not the same things as seeking 60% off of market value. He apparently knows what the car is worth, and made a low offer in order to work out a reasonable price. If he had just come out with the price he had in mind, you’d be trying to get him up closer your (high) price. To me it seems he knows what he is doing. Since he is obviously serious, there shouldn’t be any reason to shut them out just because the first offer is much too low. If it were just some kid coming over kicking the tires then blurting out “would you take...” it’d be a different situation, and I’d agree I wouldn’t waste my time bothering to negotiate a price. I’ve had that happen several times, but again that is the nature of selling on craigslist.

If you get a better offer, then great. But if you don’t it’s not going to be his fault for making a low first offer.

Related: last year I made an offer on a car and the seller thought I was low balling them. Afterall they put a lot of work and parts into the car, and they also obviously loved it very much. So they declined. I’ve watched the car get reposted every month for the past six months. Now it’s listed for even lower than my offer. But in the mean time I’ve picked up a different project and don’t have space or money for that car. Sadly we could have both been happy.

shop-teacher > Berang
08/05/2015 at 23:56

Where we disagree is on the market value. I’ve done almost nothing to this car except drive it for 8 years. I love the car, but it’s not a labor of love, nor do I feel any emotional connection to it. His $6k is a reasonable offer, but I’m not taking it. Had Ivan not shut me down right off the bat with an insulting offer, I bet we could have met somewhere in the middle.

That said, I feel my car is worth every bit of the $7k I want for it. I’d enjoy moving onto other things, but if I don’t get my price I’ll just keep it. It costs me almost nothing to register and insure.

shop-teacher > Ivan Apollo
08/05/2015 at 23:58

I had a feeling you’d be stopping by. My response is in your thread.

Andrew P. Collins > BobintheMtns
08/06/2015 at 14:29

That’s great. So true, KBB is meaningless when it comes to unique vehicles like that.

H4N5 GRU83R > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:18

“Trade for tattoo work?”

elkris > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:20

Only real way to negotiate is threaten lives.

MTY19855 > Grindintosecond
08/06/2015 at 18:21

I’ve gotten that a few times on CL. I don’t care if you’re flying in from the goddamn MOON. Not my problem. The other one I like is “X dollars... CASH.” No, you don’t get a discount for paying with actual money.

HammerheadFistpunch > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:25

well, $6000 and an old motorcycle, right?

shop-teacher > CalzoneGolem
08/06/2015 at 18:27

He did end up posting a reply down below.

shop-teacher > HammerheadFistpunch
08/06/2015 at 18:30

That might be tempting, depending on the bike.

colorfulyawn > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:30

Oh, man. I’m not even selling my car, but I regularly get asked “what it would take.” I don’t even give them a number, because it would sound ridiculous, but the truth is, what it would take is enough money to build another one just like it, only a little better. And that amount far exceeds what any sane person would be willing to pay for it.

I’ll never understand why they think I’d sell them a car that’s not even for sale and take 1/5th of what I’ve got into it.

shop-teacher > H4N5 GRU83R
08/06/2015 at 18:31

Ha! I haven’t gotten that one yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Wolc *grammar nazis go f*** yourselves* > Berang
08/06/2015 at 18:31

He is willing to sell, not desperate to sell

dustynnguyendood > Grindintosecond
08/06/2015 at 18:34

That’s perfect - I’m stealing that.

Future next gen S2000 owner > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
08/06/2015 at 18:34

I have a similar thought. What price would it take to get my car if some stranger wanted ot buy it right here and now. I’ve settled somewhere between 35-50K for an 11 yo Mustang GT with 115K on the clock. It isn’t worth that much but hey, if you absolutely gotta have it, that is what it will cost to get the title.

shop-teacher > colorfulyawn
08/06/2015 at 18:35

I always throw out $10k. That’s well more than I have into it, and more than enough to pay for whatever I’d replace it with.

IDriveEveryDay > Azrek
08/06/2015 at 18:36

I’ll give you $300.55 for this comment. But you gotta spell check it. Oh, does it come with extra verbs?

Kiltedpadre > MTY19855
08/06/2015 at 18:37

I love it when I’ve gotten the “all cash” offer. Given that my price was $500 and not 5 chickens and 2 goats cash is what I expected.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:38

It’s often hard to discern a buyer’s real motivation, but I wonder if he knows what it’s worth, and was hoping you didn’t, so that (a) he could flip it for a profit or (b) he could get it for himself within a certain spending cap.

At least he sounds like a pleasant individual to deal with, even if it didn’t result in a sale. When things don’t go someone’s way, you get a glimpse of who they really are, and sometimes that’s pretty and sometimes it isn’t.

jrhmobile > Your boy, BJR
08/06/2015 at 18:38

I drove a first-generation Seville for a couple of years and I recommend them highly.

You can build them up as the tightest of ‘70s Cadillacs with stock parts. They’re widely available, and while they’re not cheap they’re short change compared to any Euro-luxury car from that era. Truth be told, in tip-top condition they drive as well as any of them too.

Or, anywhere you prefer, you can install most any powertrain, suspension, interior or trim part from any 75-80 X-car from anywhere in GM’s lineup. Or any powertrain and most suspension parts for any second-gen 70-81 Camaro or Firebird. Factory or aftermarket parts. From mild, for hunting down and killing Hot Rod Lincolns. To wild, state of the art aftermarket setups you can use to put down most any Porsche, BMW or garden-variety Ferrari.

ANGRYAUTOENGINEER > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:38

People on Craigslist are shady as fuck and it goes both ways. A month ago I went to look at a cheap commuter / ski rig for myself. It looked like a fairly clean 4x4 pathfinder. When I went to negotiate. only asking for 5000, just 500 less than the 55oo asking price he went ballistic, (no his add did not say “firm”) he got aggressive, and stepped towards me with clenched fists. Since he probably had a good 75 lbs on me and 3 inches taller, I had no choice. Once he was about 4 feet away from me, I had to do something I really truly never want to do. ever. ( And only had done so once before...) Things didn’t calm down until he heard me flick the safety off my CC glock and I was squarely focused on center mass. The whole situation sucked. He stopped, I backed away, he drove away and I called and reported the situation to the police...

Speaking with the police, and sharing the Licence plate with them, the owner had several outstanding warrants... I got really lucky that didn’t escalate further..

ANGRYAUTOENGINEER > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:40

THe car is only worth what someone else will pay for it,

Blair > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:41

I love when people say “Cash” as part of their deal. I laugh and say, “ that’s not a big deal to me because I want upset take anything else”

Quade > vwbeamer
08/06/2015 at 18:42

if your asking price is too high, then your inviting trolls and low ballers, while serious buyers will not contact you.

I agree with you. If the asking price isn’t within 10% of what I think it’s worth I don’t call. There’s always another car out there to buy form someone with a reasonable price. I’m not saying you’re wrong shop-teacher, just that from a CL stand point I don’t even ask if the spread is too wide.

I think you should stick to your guns.

texquire > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:42

You made an undisciplined negotiating move here too: You let emotion affect your position. Because you felt insulted, your number moved.

The number is the number. The bank account doesn’t care whether you got there by starting at $2000 apart and making big moves, or taking baby steps from being $5000 apart. You can insult me in negotiations until I have the self-esteem of an bulemic ballet student, as long as you meet my number. The transaction involves the seller trying to separate the buyer from as much money as possible, and the buyer’s goal is the polar opposite of that. There is no expectation that anybody get along or cooperate, and there is every expectation that there be hurt feelings and animosity. When the best deal is struck, everybody is equally dissatisfied but has a deal. Someone suspects he sold too low, and the other wonders if he bought too high, but each is where they prefer to be.

shop-teacher > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera
08/06/2015 at 18:43

He was pleasant to deal with, and I hope he finds a nice X-body in his budget. This is an odd enough car, that I don’t think there would be much profit in a resale of it. I think a spending cap is the real issue. He added up what he would have to spend to put it how he wanted, subtracted what he has to spend, and came up with his number. I feel strongly that my car is worth $7k as it sits, so what he has left to spend after the fact isn’t my concern :)

Saigon_Design > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:44

It’s his job to get the best deal he can get, your job to do the same. You both start at either end of the spectrum (him low, you high) and meet in the middle.

Sounds like you let your hurt feelings override your business instincts.

But hey, it’s your car. Good luck selling it (seriously).

shop-teacher > texquire
08/06/2015 at 18:45

Fair point, but I feel feelings!!

StudyStudyStudy > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:49

It really would be refreshing to post something for a fair price and get paid for that price. I have joined specific forums where that is a rule. Price is as is, no haggling from either end. Price is posted and includes shipping costs and paypal fees if applicable. If it is too high the seller won’t get any interested parties and lowers it until it sells. Like reverse auctioning. It really is like a breath of fresh air instead of this whole craigslist shuffle.

The problem here is that you did not follow the unwritten rule of 20-30%. You post at a higher markup of 20-30%. That definitely bumps people away from your post who aren’t serious (even low ballers have some thought and reserve against offering less then 50%), and when you work your way down to the price you are ok with, the buyer feels like he got somewhat of a deal and you walk away with what you wanted. The problem here is that some people think their turd is worth its rust in gold. You have a nice car and your price seems apt you just needed the extra cushion. Wax the car, pretty it up, take tons of photos and repost it and see if you can’t get a few better bites.

StudyStudyStudy > Grindintosecond
08/06/2015 at 18:52

Same spiel. Selling something worth 650. That is how much it goes for all day every day on eBay. I just don’t want to deal with shipping in a crate. I do my research and post it for 550 50$ lower then the next closest ad.

Buyer says I’ll give you 400 if you meet me half way I have to cross the border and wake up early and etc etc etc. I tell him I have someone offering me cash 20 minutes away and he will come pick it up. They change their tune when they know why can’t leverage you and that the only reason you are even entertaining them is they emailed you 10 seconds before.

TheHebrewHammer > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:52

Sounds like you’re being a little over sensitive about the whole thing.

LeadfootYT > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 18:55

How can someone go through every stage of the “shopping for a car” process (finding the car, contacting you, communicating with you, meeting you somewhere, examining the car, etc.) with the intention of doing that, and not once saying “Oh, wait. That would publicly proclaim to everyone involved that I am a moron. Oops!”?

Congrats on keeping your composure.

shop-teacher > LeadfootYT
08/06/2015 at 18:57

Thanks! :)

texquire > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:03

The gist of your article is right though. The smart negotiating move on his part would be to ingratiate himself to you so that he could get your, “I like this guy and I want him to be the future owner” discount.

Look at it this way. His lowball was actually, for some people, an instinctive position. You were asking $7,850, and his target was $6000. Where did he start? He anchored his starting position roughly equidistant from where you and his limit were. If everybody moved the same-ish amount and met in the middle, he’d have a deal. He can’t read your mind so he has no idea that there is no deal to be had at $6k, so he did his best based on the information he had, which was his start, your start, and his end. Your endpoint being in a different place meant a deal was never going to happen. You could’ve made a pretty good guess at the start of negotiations that it wasn’t going to happen if he needed to move more than you to get to your number, or the inverse.

Skylark > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:07

$7000 is rather top end for a Buick Apollo (even though it appears to have the GSX package it’s just a tarty nova) that’s got issues as expected with a 40 year old car. If you’re going to let the “I don’t want to sell it” mentality influence the price you want due to emotional attatchement, you might as well not list it as it’s not going to reach your expectations of it’s perceived value.

DonKeybals > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:09

When you list on CL, you are bound to get bullshit offers. It’s always a bunch of cheap asses that want something for free. It’s full of people that are like the friend every one had in high school...Always bumming smokes and beer from everyone else, but never has any of his own. And if you go out and eat with this guy, forget it. The entree is listed at $14.99, so he puts in $15 when the tab comes.

This person is also known as a dick.

shop-teacher > Skylark
08/06/2015 at 19:11

Yes, $7k is top end for an Apollo, and mine is a top end Apollo.

Skylark > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:14

It’s really not going by its issues as mentioned by Ivan.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Party-vi
08/06/2015 at 19:14

Nice!

Steve in Manhattan > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:15

Woman in a bar in Montauk once bet I couldn’t ID her car on the street. Buick Apollo, I said. Won a glass of wine and a nice conversation.

shop-teacher > texquire
08/06/2015 at 19:16

He would have gotten that discount had he played his cards right. I knew the instant he said $4500, that we were too far apart to make a deal.

shop-teacher > Steve in Manhattan
08/06/2015 at 19:17

Nice!

Datsun73 > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:18

Kinja'd!!!

I once posted a solid running 1990 CRX Si on Craigslist. It was an Illinois car it’s entire life and the rear quarters showed it proudly with corrosion. But the interior was nearly flawless, still to this day the cleanest stock CRX interior I’ve ever seen and the engine ran PERFECTLY with 166,000 miles. It was a bargain when I stole it for $600. I drove it for 2 years and brought it out to California and posted it for $1,000 on CL - this would be the first and last time I ever post a vehicle on Craigslist. The amount of crap text messages I received within the first 24 hours was so bad, I removed the ad. But my favorite offer is worth sharing. I specifically said, in bold and all caps: CASH ONLY ABSOLUTELY NO TRADES. And what did I get in response?

“ay man i gotta 42 in plazma n a litter of blue razer noze pitbullz only 6 week ol yer pick of the litter fo da honda”

It took me a minute to comprehend what this moron was trying to offer, but I responded with:

“I don’t want your stolen television or your rodents. Don’t respond.”

shop-teacher > Skylark
08/06/2015 at 19:19

Well, that’s where we disagree.

guiltymexican > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:19

I sold a 2002 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V on Craigslist and the very first person I dealt with was an experienced tire kicker. It was such an awful experience I kept the car until it died and sold literally for scrap metals cuz Nissan and its Mexican plant could not put Legos together correctly.

I priced the car to sell and he low-balled the hell out of it and basically acted like he did not want the car. I just walked away and he went up $1,000. I couldn’t believe it. But hell no I was not going to sell to him.

Mechanicjay > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
08/06/2015 at 19:20

I had a fun interaction a few years ago with my miata which this reminded me of. The car had some nice upgrades, a ton of miles. It was a $4K car all day long. I get a guy at a gas station asking if I’d like to sell it. I say sure, for the right price. He asks how much. I say, I’ll give you the keys right now for $8K. He says, that’s too much, I wouldn’t pay more than $1500 for that.

Then when the hell did you even ask for?

Hirsch > shop-teacher
08/06/2015 at 19:23

I’ve had good and bad experiences on Craigslist. The last thing I sold was a 2003 F150 4x4. I paid $6800 for it, put new tires and new exhaust on it. It was in great shape, with 115K miles. I put it up at $7200 or best offer. The first offer was from a guy who said “nice truck, I don’t really need it but I’ll give you $2500 right now.” I didn’t reply to his lowball offer and he emailed me the next day offering $3000 “if I still had it.” I replied that I did have it but wouldn’t even consider $3000. He countered with “whats the lowest you’ll take?” I said “$7200” His final offer was $4500. I sold it two days later for $7000.

Good luck with the sale!